03.26.08
Dating on the rocks
Greater Trumps is a Porto Cigar bar off Hawthorne and SE 37th. I met Talldarkandhandsome a little before 9 and we ordered munchies and some drinks. I wasn’t sure what to expect – so I didn’t have any expectations.
For sure, it’s been awhile since I’ve gone to meet someone new. I’m probably rusty, and after a long day at work, a little tired as well. What sort of surprised me was how utterly uninteresting I felt.
Talldarkandhandsome was charming and good looking. We talked and I nursed a Macallan. When he got up to take a break I asked the bartender not to let him pay for my breadsticks and scotch.
So later, as Talldarkandhandsome is eating a breadstick, the bartender says, “I’m not supposed to let you eat the lady’s breadsticks.”
I was like, WTF are you talking about you idiot. The bartender joked that I asked him not to let my date eat the breadsticks.
“I asked you not to let him PAY for my side of the tab!”
Here’s where it irritates me, bartender jokes and plays dumb, but while Talldarkandhandsome was in the restroom I clearly explained to the bartender that I didn’t want someone I just met picking up my drinks. So he says, “Sure, I can understand that.”
But evidently, even though he understood – he couldn’t mind his own business.
I have my own comfort rule of paying for my half of the tab for the first few dates. Sometimes there are exceptions and I make them as gracefully as I can. It’s been my experience in the past that men who insist on the check have one of these things; an ulterior motivation, a sense of obligation, a level of chivalry or even a desire to be a caretaker. Even though this is a terrible and broad generalization, it has been my experience and like anyone, I make my calls based on what I’ve learned first-hand. Hence the insistence that I am responsible for myself until I feel like I’ve learned someone well enough to know what their expectations are.
What I find fascinating, is how men respond to this. Sometimes they are “hurt” or irritated or surprised or indifferent. I don’t think I’ve ever had the same response from two different men.
Also, when I go out and the bartender or waitress is a woman, and I make my request for separate checks – she doesn’t even blink. If my bartender is a woman, and I have the opportunity to request out of earshot that I’d like a separate check – hands down – the women will always smile and say, “I know what you mean. No problem.”
But if my bartender is a man, like he was last night – he almost always plays fucking stupid. I’m not even joking about this. He’ll often pretend I didn’t make the request, or ignore it altogether and give his fellow guy the entire tab as though I hadn’t said anything. The last time I called a bartender on it he said, “Oh, you’re right. I’m sorry, I totally forgot.” By then the tab was signed and there was nothing I could do about it.
I don’t know what this is about but it’s an interesting observation.
Anywhoo, there was a brief discussion about the check and for the first time I started to wonder if I need to just stop trying to keep myself so separate. Let someone pick up the tab. I dunno. He was a gentleman and let me have my way with a graceful nod and it felt like a shallow victory in the battle to stay an independent woman. Why is this such a big deal? Why does it seem to matter? Should it matter?
To make peace I told Talldarkandhandsome that I’d let him get the next one.
The night ended with a hug and a promise to do it again sometime. Then I promptly went home and curled up in bed and fell asleep feeling like a asshole.
Jordan said,
March 26, 2008 at 5:19 pm
On the flip side, I’d be weirded out if I went on a first date and the girl I was meeting expected me to pay. Maybe it’s tradition, but I think it’s a BS tradition. Any girl I’m interested in is going to be independent enough to pay her share. We can trade off tabs later if things work out.
So don’t feel like an ass. It’s perfectly reasonable, and in my mind desirable, to want things that way.
Nelli Vanderburg said,
March 26, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Don’t feel bad, Athena. It’s a perfectly reasonable request (as I see Jordan said above me) and there’s nothing wrong with asserting a bit of independence. The bartender was just being a jerk. Maybe it’s like the Good Ol’ Boy system or something. I don’t know. But do not feel bad. And it sounds like Talldarkandhandsome (btw, is that his screen name or just your description of him, cuz YOW) was cool with it, so don’t even worry.
*hugs*
Talldarkandhandsome said,
March 26, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Hmmm? Where to start?
I guess I have to start by stating that I feel a little hurt when I read the statement:
“To make peace I told Talldarkandhandsome that I’d let him get the next one.”
Now, when I say that I felt “hurt”, it’s in the sense that I was completely CLUELESS as to how much of an issue this was to you at the time. Allow me to try and some context to this issue.
Talldarkandhandsome was raised by parents with southern sensibilities. Basically, what that means is that you were:
• Taught to hold open a door for the fairer sex, and your elders
• Respect those in authority over you
• Say quaint little phrases like “please” and “thank you”
• Offer to pick up the tab of your guest that you have been entertaining
With that backdrop in mind, this is why Talldarkandhandsome made the effort to pay for the delicious breadsticks which were consumed (among things) that evening.
Talldarkandhandsome is in now way opposed to splitting a bar tab. He was merely following a knee jerk reaction to do something that he was raised to do since he was a wee little lad.
Talldarkandhandsome is actually a little sad that such a great evening ended on such a down note for you. Talldarkandhandsome is smitten with you and is eager to see you again.
P.S., I’m still holing onto your cigar.
Athena said,
March 27, 2008 at 12:00 am
Thank you Jordan
I have always appreciated that you let me maintain my sense of space and selfhood and I also very much appreciate that as we become better friends my boundries relax. I dig that you get that, so - thanks
Athena said,
March 27, 2008 at 12:03 am
Thanks Nelli
It’s his description. I haven’t been able to think of a fitting name yet. I agree with you, I think it’s part of the Good ‘Ol Boy system. Guys trying to help eachother out or something.
I’m glad Talldarkandhandsome was okay with it but the internal response on my end triggered something that I need to digest and process a little more to understand.
PS, when are you coming down?
Athena said,
March 27, 2008 at 12:20 am
Hello Talldarksandhandsome!
Welcome to the BlissQuest!
First let me say- Thank you for a lovely evening!
I got your email and it made me smile.
So, I guess there is more I need to blog about to explain some back story of my own.
I’ll write a post tomorrow and hopefully shed some light for you. It really is not a big deal.
Thank you for meeting up with me last night. I loved how much you know about scotch and how well traveled you are!
I’ll totally take you up on a cigar night
Nelli Vanderburg said,
March 27, 2008 at 7:25 am
Not until this fall sometime. I had to give myself a lot of time to get used to the idea, because as excited as I am to get out of Valdez, I’m going to miss it like crazy when I’m not here anymore. Plus, summer is the busy time at the station, so I wouldn’t want to leave them in the lurch for that.
Lara said,
March 27, 2008 at 7:26 am
So, PirateLara is slightly envious of Athena.
Does Talkdarkandhandsome have a brother?
I hope you are no longer feeling bad about the evening, since apparently he is smitten with you. (eee!)
Remind me when I see you again, to tell you about my adventures in the land of 19 year old troubled boys.
Epiphany said,
March 27, 2008 at 8:49 am
It sounds to me like the only one making an issue out of it was the bartender, who should have just kept his mouth shut. It’s not his job to evaluate why you want a separate tab, it’s just his job to DO that…whatever your reasons are.
TDH, you seem like a nice guy…we might even forgive you for talking about yourself in the third person
Chadely said,
March 28, 2008 at 3:17 pm
“curled up in bed and fell asleep feeling like a asshole. ” and this is different from any other night, How?
*smirks*
Harley said,
March 28, 2008 at 3:19 pm
You should understand this from the man’s perspective. There is no standard here anymore. Some women expect the man to pay. If the man says “lets split the check” it makes him seem cheap. My rule has always been to pay the bill, but allow my date to pay half if she offers. After the first few dates my general rule is - the one that asks the other one out pays. Nowadays, women should pay for at least some dates or contribute by cooking a romantic dinner.
Athena said,
March 28, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Chadely.
Dearest.
Not different from any other night.
Good point.
Meh.
Asshole.
Athena said,
March 28, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Harley, that’s a pretty good rule of thumb I think.
Sadly, I feel like sometimes - there’s just no way for a guy to win. Right?
Texan said,
April 2, 2008 at 9:20 am
As a man who’s getting ready to relocate to PDX from Austin, I’m confused…women actually want to pay their half of the check in PDX??? I think that’s atypical of what I definitely used to down here. God, I think I might fall out of my chair if this happened!
Seriously, it’s interesting to see how people in different parts of the country have completely different viewpoints/customs on dating/relationships. Trust me, I wouldn’t be intimidated, whatsoever, if a woman wanted to pick up half the check at dinner…again, she might have to help me up off of the floor, but it definitely wouldn’t be an issue.
Athena said,
April 2, 2008 at 10:33 am
Hi Texan!
Welcome to the BlissQuest!
I don’t know if it’s typical here either. I’m not a fair judge of what’s normal in the dating world being that I tend to be sort of an odd duck in most cases.
That being said, if it is normal here - I’m sure most of my fellow ladies would happily help you up off the floor